Showing posts sorted by date for query National Tune-up Freq. Sort by relevance Show all posts
Showing posts sorted by date for query National Tune-up Freq. Sort by relevance Show all posts

Friday, June 14, 2024

The National Tune-Up Frequency Controversy - Part 2


In Part-1 of this Blog-series, I introduced the concept of the National Tune-Up Frequency,
a problem that has plagued radio amateurs since the early 1920's; i.e., nearly 100 Years ago.

Recently, after running several successful QRP radiosport GiGs, I came to realize that the NTF "problem" is largely fueled by people not realizing that even though your transceiver may be tuning
at considerably reduced power (say 20 watts) in relation to its overall 100-watt output, that reduced power is barely 6-db (1 s-unit) down from full power - i.e., your tuning attempt is nearly as loud as your regular signal.  This is why we should ALWAYS listen before we tune-up.
This is ALSO where the use of Dummy Loads become so important.


According to VE3FDT back in 2011:
Just a quick summary of responses as I interpret them. Tuning-UP on someone's
CQ frequency happens for any or all of the following reasons: 

  1.  Malice. 
  2.  Ignorance. 
  3.  Intrinsic inability to think (a.k.a. stupidity). 
  4.  Reasons unknown and unfathomable. 
 Clearly the consensus is that nothing constructive can be done about it,
hence the suggested course of action should be: 

  1.  Ignore it. 
  2.  Disregard it. 
  3.  Forget it.

W5DQ had a few thoughts on the subject in response:
"A lot of these what I like to call T.U.T.s (Tune Up Turkeys) think if they don't get that amplifier
tuned down to a gnat's ass exactly on the freq where they want to use it, then it won't work right.
Many seem to think (by their idiotic actions) that their amplifier final tank circuitry has zero bandwidth therefore requiring spot on tune ups.  I agree with your suggestion of pop down the band a bit outside the active bandwidth, listen and do a quick tune-up.  Should take less than 10 seconds to completely preset and tune the amp after a band change.  To expedite my operating, I have my starting points
for each band/mode my amp covers on a small chart.  I preset the LOAD and PLATE to the chart
and then, if necessary, I can tweak the controls during the first couple of calls to the DX in the pileup.
No one is bothered and life is good.
"


The last 20 years have brought us a number of different approaches to DSP notch filtering. 
The Yaesu FT-2000 & FT-1000mp sport excellent AUDIO DNF circuits.  Unfortunately, while we
may have notched an S-9+ signal out of the audio passband, it is still inside the receive passband, compromising the AGC system, and thereby reducing IF gain, dropping weaker signals below the signal-threshold, when they were perfectly readable BEFORE the interfering carrier started.  

The Yaesu FTDX-5000 and FTDX-9000 transceivers, as well as the ICOM, 7600x, 7700x & 7800x transceivers all notch the offending signal INSIDE the receive passband, eliminating the tone as well
as any AGC dampening normally caused by such an offending signal.  Even my ICOM-7000 utilizes
IF-based DNR & DNF.

Unfortunately, as useful as these circuits are for Ssb operation, being unable to distinguish
a continuous carrier from on/off keying such as RTTY and CW, ANF circuits are largely worthless
for these modes.

As it turns out, when running RTTY, Tune-Up Turkies (TuT's) who park EXACTLY on the Mark frequency often HELP my signal to be decoded on the other end.  It has often helped the MMTTY decoder used with N1MM+ to decode signals with a "weak" mark tone.

The BoTTom-Line is that as long as there is amateur radio, there will be Tune-Up Turkies who live in an unconsciousness universe, completely oblivious to the impact their careless/poor operating habits create in/on the world they play around in.


Friday, September 17, 2021

The National Tune-Up Frequency Contraversy - Part 1

 

Radio historians often quibble over which commercial broadcast station was first to the airwaves.  Having callsigns and operation on specific frequencies allows easy station identification.
A classic early station is none other than WWV, established around 1920.  Prior to making
formal transmissions, most station operators, tune the XMTR to properly match the antenna.
Because they are more-or-less the sole occupants of those frequencies they can do whatever
they want.

Radio amateurs share a frequency pool, giving them access to virtually any frequency in that pool, with no exclusive right to ANY specific frequency.  Because we also need to tune up our transmitters, it makes sense to choose a frequency in the vicinity of our proposed operation to effect transmitter tune-up; and herein lies the problem.

On any given day at any given time, seemingly out of nowhere a BLEEEP! blasts our ears,
jolting us out of our calm-inducing QRN-meditation; once again, our friend TuT, the (Tune-Up Turkey) has invaded the operating window.  I've often defined "National Tune-up Frequency" as any frequency I happen to be running at any given moment; especially during a radiosport contest. 
However, there is a lot more to it than just that.

Rather than just give you my [potentially] narrow-minded viewpoint, you may find the e-Ham discussion forum on this topic to be useful reading; except it gets quite redundant. 
As a substitute, I have paraphrased the main points from that forum as follows:

  • I thought the National Tuneup Frequency was any frequency your trying to pass traffic on. Preferably H&W traffic. That's when the key-klowns usually show up. (KB3JLZ)
  • As far as I have observed over the years the "National" tune up frequency has been
    7.240 mhz, right on top of the weekend West Coast swap net!! (W6PMR)
  • SWISH YOUR XIT AROUND WHILE TUNING UP.  THIS WAY NO ONE SINGLE
    STATION GETS ALL THE QRM!!!  (HP2PWA)
  • I suggest a national tune-up /OOOOOLAH OOOOOOLAH frequency be designated
    to any and all frequencies on which K1MAN "BROADCASTS". 73  (KT0DD)
  • I agree with your idea of having national tune up frequencies on each band.
    May be it should not be necessary.  Perhaps the idea would be accepted better
    by the high power crowd if a monthly contest were held on the various national
    tune up frequencies. The winner would be the one with the "biggest signal".
    Your idea continues to get better.  (KC4COP)
  • The idea sounds good, it really does. ...except if your LiD enough to tune up on a freq that is already in use you certainly aren't going to be using the tune up freq. LoL.  (W5NIG)
  • I think you all have it wrong.  These people are not tuning up.  They are warming their amps up for the DX.  Since they do not want to miss it they are doing it on the same frequency.  (KX2S)
  • It did not take me long to realize that you NEVER spot DX until AFTER you work them. Simply because just as soon as you spot the DX, his frequency becomes the NTF! Hams know how to quickly get on the spotted frequency, but they sure as heck don't know what to do after they get there. (W4BQF)
  • I thought that we already had a NTF. It usually seems to find me whenever
    I get a chance at working some DX on 20.  (N5YPJ)
  • The "Old Man" was complaining about exactly the same thing in 1926. (N6AJR)
  • The last time I had a carrier thrown on me, the QRM lasted, non-stop, 6 minutes.
    Either it was done deliberately, or the stupid LiD can't figure out how to tune his antenna after 5 minutes of hard work. I think I find explanation #2 more funny! :-)  (NE1RD)
  • I would propose that the new frequency would be 14.313. This would take care of the
    LIDS that congregate on that "CHANNEL".  (W5GNB)
  • This might get out of hand. You would also need a national whistling and blowing
    in the mic frequency as well as a, "OOOOOOOOOOOLA OOOOOOOOOOOOOLA" frequency.  We wouldn't want to leave out any of the LIDS or hurt their feelings.  (KA4P)
  • It's also true many tuner uppers are sick individuals who do so deliberately to see how much of a rise they can get out of the rest of the world. No one wants to talk to them so they QRM everyone else.   Still another group is absolutely certain that they will not be heard at all if they do not squeeze the last possible watt, usually 2,000 plus, out of their "export" version amplifier. Or that they will damage their tubes if they run even slightly
    "off resonance." So they tune up on the air every 5 kHz, and take five to ten minutes to "get it just right."  It sometimes helps to speak harshly about the offender on the air,
    and to be rude and uncouth if you can run him down in person. It also helps when the community starts DF'ing the source of interference on the QRM'ers frequency. (AC5E)
  • It's been going on for at least 30 years...i used to refer to the Md. emergency phone
    net frequency as the National tune-up frequency. can/t do anything about it, best to
    just ignore it if possible.   (WB3FTQ)
I have encountered most of the above-described situations many times over the years,
especially during radiosport contesting.  We can SOMETIMES blame it on novice-operating,
mistakes made by newly-licensed operators.  However, some actions are SO EGRIGOUS
they are OBVIOUSLY intended to create some sort of a communication disruption.

While it is TRUE that audio-DSP's can auto-notch the carriers out of what I hear, if it is a LOUD station, the AGC will already have lowered the receiver gain, often just enough that the WEAKer station the LiD is tuning up on is now reduced in signal strength even further.

There is more to say about this LiD Phenomenon,.
For now, let the above serve as "FooD FoR ThoT" on the topic.
What about YOU?  Have You ever encountered the National Tune-up Frequency?
How DiD YOU handle it?